Aug 05 18:04:56 *	Topic for #fedora-meeting is: kde sig meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 
-- init
Aug 05 18:04:56 *	Topic for #fedora-meeting set by rdieter at Tue Aug  5 18:05:37 2008
Aug 05 18:05:15 *	lvillani almost present
Aug 05 18:05:34 *	replica lurking
Aug 05 18:05:37 <rdieter>	let's get started...
Aug 05 18:05:59 <rdieter>	topic: RFE: add Home to top level Menu (like kde3): http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457756
Aug 05 18:06:10 *	rdieter has changed the topic to: kde sig meeting -- 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 -- RFE: add Home to top level Menu (like kde3): 
http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457756
Aug 05 18:06:44 <rdieter>	I'm leary to vary from upstream here too much.  thoughts?
Aug 05 18:07:11 <ltinkl>	I'd say add it to the menu, ppl would imho expect it to be there
Aug 05 18:07:27 <Kevin_Kofler>	I think adding a .desktop file can't hurt and I wouldn't quite call it "vary from upstream".
Aug 05 18:07:29 -dmwaters_-	{global notice} Good day all, it looks like one of our sponsors had some routing problems. Thank you 
all for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
Aug 05 18:07:34 <Kevin_Kofler>	We'd just add an additional file.
Aug 05 18:07:43 *	lvillani agrees
Aug 05 18:07:47 <SMParrish>	I would agree, its expected to be there
Aug 05 18:08:05 <ltinkl>	yup, furthermore, as there is no classical Home icon on the desktop, the home files are not easily 
accessible
Aug 05 18:08:07 <rdieter>	ok, anyone willing to take the issue ot upstream, to lobby to change this?
Aug 05 18:08:39 <rdieter>	also, there's a genuine bug here, that "Home" is inaccessible from classic menu, which is what 
prompted this initially.
Aug 05 18:10:02 <sgodsell>	So is the meeting about what new things can be added or changed?
Aug 05 18:10:31 *	jlaska_ is now known as jlaska
Aug 05 18:10:32 <rdieter>	sgodsell: current discussion topic is http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457756
Aug 05 18:10:50 <sgodsell>	ah, okay
Aug 05 18:10:52 <than_>	sgodsell: yes
Aug 05 18:10:55 <rdieter>	sgodsell: and agenda http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05
Aug 05 18:11:32 <rdieter>	see, making a local change without upstream followup doesn't make sense to me.
Aug 05 18:11:47 <rdieter>	upstream is free to reject it, but the effort should be make all the same.
Aug 05 18:12:31 <Kevin_Kofler>	Can't we do the customizations first, then dump them all in a huge "Fedora KDE customizations" 
thread? That worked for a certain other distro... ;-)
Aug 05 18:12:47 <sgodsell>	so its really about kde in general then
Aug 05 18:12:49 <rdieter>	fine with me. :)
Aug 05 18:13:38 <SMParrish>	sounds like a good idea
Aug 05 18:13:44 <lvillani>	+1
Aug 05 18:13:53 <rdieter>	sgodsell: fedora+kde issues yes. :)
Aug 05 18:14:22 <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: does that mean you're volunteering? :)
Aug 05 18:14:32 <CheGuevara>	lol
Aug 05 18:15:07 <Kevin_Kofler>	I'm apparently not considered important enough by upstream to be allowed to post on kde-core-devel 
without going through moderation. :-(
Aug 05 18:15:23 <Kevin_Kofler>	So I'm not sure I'm the ideal contact person there.
Aug 05 18:15:45 <rdieter>	I'm pretty sure the last time was just a fluke.
Aug 05 18:16:03 <Kevin_Kofler>	Posts on kde-core-devel are moderated.
Aug 05 18:16:14 <Kevin_Kofler>	Only people explicitly authorized can post directly.
Aug 05 18:16:16 <rdieter>	wow, all of them?  didn't know that.
Aug 05 18:16:23 <sgodsell>	well I will leave you kde guys alone then.  Since I am a gnome guy  :-)
Aug 05 18:16:39 <Kevin_Kofler>	You're probably on the list of people who don't need moderation.
Aug 05 18:16:46 <rdieter>	heh.  fools!
Aug 05 18:17:18 <rdieter>	alright, I think we're in agreement about making a change, we'll worry about the rest later.
Aug 05 18:17:28 <Kevin_Kofler>	+1
Aug 05 18:17:43 <rdieter>	next topic: system-config-printer not available from menus http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457921
Aug 05 18:17:45 <rdieter>	wierd one
Aug 05 18:18:05 *	rdieter has changed the topic to: kde sig meeting -- 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 --  system-config-printer not available from menus 
http://bugzilla.redhat.com/457921
Aug 05 18:18:28 <rdieter>	seems (some?) apps with Category=GTK don't show in kde menus.  any ideas?
Aug 05 18:18:40 <lvillani>	I have the entry with kde 4.1
Aug 05 18:18:42 <Kevin_Kofler>	Maybe there's some more hardcoding there.
Aug 05 18:18:50 <rdieter>	lvillani: oh?  raqts
Aug 05 18:18:52 <rdieter>	rats even
Aug 05 18:18:59 <lvillani>	it's called 'Printing'
Aug 05 18:19:11 <ltinkl>	where should it appear btw_
Aug 05 18:19:14 <rdieter>	lvillani: where?  Admininstration->Printing ?
Aug 05 18:19:27 <lvillani>	yes
Aug 05 18:19:29 <rdieter>	that's where it appears for me, but only if I remove Category=GTK
Aug 05 18:19:38 <lvillani>	I did nothing
Aug 05 18:19:48 <ltinkl>	I see it there as well, no modification needed
Aug 05 18:19:51 <rdieter>	know what?  I did have the dreaded kmenu-gnome installed at one time, maybe it left some crud 
behind.
Aug 05 18:19:59 <ltinkl>	likely
Aug 05 18:20:00 <Kevin_Kofler>	I don't understand how Category=GTK is relevant at all, unless there's some hardcoding somewhere to 
treat it specially.
Aug 05 18:20:06 <Kevin_Kofler>	But then why is it working for lvillani?
Aug 05 18:20:10 <ltinkl>	there's none afaik
Aug 05 18:20:18 <SMParrish>	I've got it here with no issues   4.1 on F9
Aug 05 18:20:19 <ltinkl>	Kevin_Kofler: for me as well
Aug 05 18:20:38 <rdieter>	ok, looks like it's a local issue somehow.  I feel better now.
Aug 05 18:20:55 <than_>	rdieter: yeah seems a local issue
Aug 05 18:21:06 <Kevin_Kofler>	rdieter: Look in your ~/.config/menus for suspicious files.
Aug 05 18:21:10 <rdieter>	alrighty lets move on. (will do).
Aug 05 18:21:16 <Kevin_Kofler>	Everything which contains "GTK" and sits in there is suspicious.
Aug 05 18:21:32 <rdieter>	next topic: kde-4.1 update feedback http://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-6743
Aug 05 18:21:53 *	rdieter has changed the topic to: kde sig meeting -- 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 --   kde-4.1 update feedback 
http://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/FEDORA-2008-6743
Aug 05 18:22:11 <Kevin_Kofler>	Looks good so far, but we're waiting for the next testing push to get the stuff with the fixes 
pushed out for some testing.
Aug 05 18:22:23 <Kevin_Kofler>	There are several reported issues which are fixed by the new builds.
Aug 05 18:22:40 <rdieter>	As I commented in #fedora-kde earlier, at first, I was midly annoyed at some of the non-constructive 
and/or non-actionable comments being left, but then it occured to me to be flatterred by all the feedback and attention.
Aug 05 18:22:52 <lvillani>	I installed Fedora 9 on three machines last week, had no problems at all updating packages
Aug 05 18:23:04 <rdieter>	lvillani: thx, excellent
Aug 05 18:23:06 <lvillani>	(new workstation, eeepc, Dell laptop)
Aug 05 18:23:30 <lvillani>	all using kde 4.1 and cool kwin effects :>
Aug 05 18:23:49 <rdieter>	well, question remains, how do we feel about it, and are we getting close to ready to push to 
stable?
Aug 05 18:24:26 <MathStuf>	once the konq/kate process problems are fixed with kdelibs, i think it'd be ready
Aug 05 18:24:29 <ltinkl>	no problems from on my side either
Aug 05 18:24:36 <ltinkl>	from -
Aug 05 18:24:44 <Kevin_Kofler>	I think we should let the fixed builds hit testing first.
Aug 05 18:24:51 <lvillani>	it is fine, for me
Aug 05 18:24:53 <Kevin_Kofler>	And let them at least a few days in testing.
Aug 05 18:24:57 <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: +1
Aug 05 18:25:00 <SMParrish>	I've had 4.1 on my laptop (main machine) for almost a week.  No problems but lots of oooooohs  and 
ahhhhhhhs from onlookers -)
Aug 05 18:25:21 <Kevin_Kofler>	Hopefully that'll also give me time to fix quarticurve-kwin-theme which is suffering from display 
issues.
Aug 05 18:25:24 <lvillani>	maybe wait for qt 4.4.1 to hit f9?
Aug 05 18:25:24 *	JSchmitt_ is now known as JSchmitt
Aug 05 18:25:31 *	replica wonders where SMParrish lives
Aug 05 18:25:42 <Kevin_Kofler>	lvillani: Oh no, you just opened another can of worms!
Aug 05 18:25:53 <lvillani>	heh :)
Aug 05 18:25:54 <Kevin_Kofler>	http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168007
Aug 05 18:25:55 <buggbot>	Bug 168007: medium, medium, ---, kernel-maint@redhat.com, CLOSED CURRENTRELEASE, unknown symbol 
warnings from depmod for xfs.ko, during yum update
Aug 05 18:25:55 <than_>	lvillani: there's a regression in 4.4.1
Aug 05 18:26:06 <Kevin_Kofler>	(ignore buggbot, as usual)
Aug 05 18:26:20 <than_>	it should be fixed before we push it in F9 update
Aug 05 18:26:26 <Kevin_Kofler>	+1
Aug 05 18:26:33 <lvillani>	fine
Aug 05 18:26:48 <Kevin_Kofler>	The Plasma developers are currently debating what the correct fix is.
Aug 05 18:26:58 <Kevin_Kofler>	Give them a few more hours to sort things out.
Aug 05 18:27:06 <lvillani>	I heard about a complete rewrite of the plasma systray applet
Aug 05 18:27:22 *	SMParrish Lives in Raleigh NC  home of RedHat 8-)
Aug 05 18:27:32 <rdieter>	4.0 -> 4.1 did see a *lot* of code changes wrt systray. :)
Aug 05 18:28:01 <Kevin_Kofler>	But they're already at work redoing it all over again for 4.2, because 4.1 still has some problems.
Aug 05 18:28:24 <Kevin_Kofler>	The main user-visible one is the fact that the solid background color doesn't fit in well with the 
gradient in the default Plasma theme.
Aug 05 18:28:42 <rdieter>	ok, looks like we don't see any current blockers, but we'll let the latest set of pkgs seep in 
updates-testing for a bit longer.
Aug 05 18:28:57 <lvillani>	Kevin_Kofler, well, if you use the 'Elegance' theme it isn't noticeable at all
Aug 05 18:29:19 *	rdieter has changed the topic to: kde sig meeting -- 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-08-05 --   open discussion
Aug 05 18:29:32 <rdieter>	that's it for the agenda, any other topics to discuss?
Aug 05 18:29:34 <Kevin_Kofler>	systemsettings menu categorization
Aug 05 18:29:48 <Kevin_Kofler>	(I added it to the agenda too, late, sorry.)
Aug 05 18:29:51 <rdieter>	ok,
Aug 05 18:30:18 <Kevin_Kofler>	I think we all agree that systemsettings needs to be shown in the menu, especially for the classic 
menu which doesn't have the "Computer" tab.
Aug 05 18:30:26 <Kevin_Kofler>	The problem is: where.
Aug 05 18:30:36 <Kevin_Kofler>	Currently we're putting it under Settings where it was in 4.0.
Aug 05 18:30:46 <than_>	Kevin_Kofler:  Settings
Aug 05 18:30:48 <rdieter>	ok, same issue as for "Home"
Aug 05 18:30:56 <Kevin_Kofler>	But other candidates are System, our System Settings or the top level.
Aug 05 18:31:13 <Kevin_Kofler>	The System Settings category is added by our menu patch.
Aug 05 18:31:18 <replica>	settings seems the most logical
Aug 05 18:31:26 <rdieter>	top level will match kcontrol location for kde3, but I'm ok with anywhere.
Aug 05 18:31:31 <Kevin_Kofler>	Upstream has System and Settings categories, and things with both categories show up in both.
Aug 05 18:31:35 <than_>	replica: +1
Aug 05 18:31:48 <Kevin_Kofler>	We have System for System only, Settings for Settings only and System Settings for the .desktop 
files which set both.
Aug 05 18:31:56 <replica>	that's where i'd look for it if i were new to kickoff (which i am ;)
Aug 05 18:32:05 <ltinkl>	I'd say toplevel, as in KDE 3, Help and Find are there as well
Aug 05 18:32:13 <Kevin_Kofler>	On the other hand, having something called "System Settings" not under "System Settings" is weird. 
;-)
Aug 05 18:32:21 <Kevin_Kofler>	But then again it doesn't just set system settings.
Aug 05 18:32:33 <Kevin_Kofler>	So I believe Settings is actually the correct category, unless we want to put it at the top level.
Aug 05 18:32:51 *	ltinkl votes for toplevel together with Home
Aug 05 18:33:07 *	SMParrish agrees with ltinkl
Aug 05 18:33:37 <than_>	it's settings tools, imo it should be in Settings
Aug 05 18:33:51 <rdieter>	both! :)
Aug 05 18:33:55 <lvillani>	:D
Aug 05 18:34:13 <ltinkl>	see, all other OSes I know put those 2 entries in toplevel menu
Aug 05 18:34:52 <Kevin_Kofler>	It's easy to put it at the top level in any case, just change Settings to Core in the 
show-systemsettings patch.
Aug 05 18:35:13 <Kevin_Kofler>	I don't really care as long as it's in the menu.
Aug 05 18:35:28 <lvillani>	well, I agree with than_, btw
Aug 05 18:36:17 <rdieter>	this is the place (again), where I'd recommend raising the issue upstream... (regardless, bugs *do* 
need to be filed for this and Home cases,, for not showing in Classic menu)
Aug 05 18:37:05 <rdieter>	let's tally again, who's for toplevel?  please vote.
Aug 05 18:37:11 <ltinkl>	+1
Aug 05 18:37:31 <SMParrish>	+1
Aug 05 18:37:38 <rdieter>	unofficial, of course, just getting an idea.
Aug 05 18:37:53 <Kevin_Kofler>	I'm OK with any location other than "none". :-)
Aug 05 18:38:09 <ltinkl>	does that count as toplevel++? :)
Aug 05 18:38:16 <rdieter>	and for "Settings"?  please vote.
Aug 05 18:38:27 <than_>	+1 :)
Aug 05 18:38:33 <lvillani>	+1
Aug 05 18:38:40 <than_>	it's the correct place for that
Aug 05 18:38:41 <replica>	+1 (if my vote counts ;)
Aug 05 18:38:49 *	rdieter joins Kevin_Kofler on the fence.
Aug 05 18:39:19 <rdieter>	ok, definitive result of undecided.
Aug 05 18:39:34 <Kevin_Kofler>	Hmmm, maybe we should ask svahl for an opinion?
Aug 05 18:39:36 <rdieter>	well, I'll +1 settings just so that we can decide on doing *something*
Aug 05 18:39:44 <ltinkl>	:)
Aug 05 18:39:46 <Kevin_Kofler>	Settings is where it is now. :-)
Aug 05 18:39:51 <replica>	settings is probably where upstream will put it when they finally fix the issue
Aug 05 18:40:00 <Kevin_Kofler>	So let it stay there unless we can decide on something else.
Aug 05 18:40:12 <than_>	we should add it in Settings first
Aug 05 18:40:17 <Kevin_Kofler>	I don't want it to pingpong between Settings and the toplevel.
Aug 05 18:40:28 <than_>	we can always change it later
Aug 05 18:40:31 <ltinkl>	I'm trading Settings for Home going into toplevel
Aug 05 18:40:37 <ltinkl>	^^
Aug 05 18:40:46 <rdieter>	ok, any other topics for today?
Aug 05 18:41:07 <rdieter>	akademy? :)
Aug 05 18:41:17 *	ltinkl was about to suggest it
Aug 05 18:41:22 <ltinkl>	so who does attend akademy?
Aug 05 18:41:29 <rdieter>	oh oh, me!
Aug 05 18:41:43 <ltinkl>	me too
Aug 05 18:41:52 *	ltinkl points at than
Aug 05 18:42:06 <rdieter>	ltinkl, than: after meeting, let me know when you're getting there, and where you're staying.
Aug 05 18:42:22 <ltinkl>	rdieter: sure
Aug 05 18:43:09 <rdieter>	and maybe we can put our heads together a bit (brainstorm) wrt to my talk, I still haven't 
finallized on anything yet
Aug 05 18:43:15 <ltinkl>	http://techbase.kde.org/Events/Akademy/2008/Attendees
Aug 05 18:43:20 <ltinkl>	^^ list of attendees
Aug 05 18:43:32 <ltinkl>	add yourself if you're going
Aug 05 18:43:59 <ltinkl>	rdieter: when is your talk?
Aug 05 18:44:59 <rdieter>	Um.. checking... 16:25 SAT, http://akademy.kde.org/conference/presentation/41.php
Aug 05 18:46:34 <rdieter>	ideally, I could con... err... trick...err convince you guys to talk a bit with me. :)  share a 
highlight or 2 of F9 development and working with kde4.
Aug 05 18:47:10 <ltinkl>	rdieter: no problem, let's discuss it Friday evening on site^W in some local pub
Aug 05 18:47:20 <rdieter>	ltinkl: +99
Aug 05 18:47:56 <rdieter>	ok, how about some words about FUDConBrno?
Aug 05 18:48:08 <ltinkl>	now?
Aug 05 18:48:26 <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: sure, why not? :)  just an fyi, what's the plan, who's already coming, etc...
Aug 05 18:48:31 <rdieter>	oops, ltinkl even.
Aug 05 18:48:51 <ltinkl>	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConBrno2008
Aug 05 18:49:16 <ltinkl>	there's a FUDCon going to take place in September this year in Brno
Aug 05 18:49:33 <Kevin_Kofler>	I'll probably come to FUDConBrno for the main day (the Saturday "BarCamp"). I can take the train 
from Vienna in the early morning and back out in the late evening, it's so close. :-)
Aug 05 18:49:48 <ltinkl>	for those who don't know, Brno is in Czech Republic so here's your chance to attend if you come from 
Europe
Aug 05 18:49:52 *	rdieter curses, wishes he could be there.
Aug 05 18:50:35 <ltinkl>	furthermore, Redhat offices are in Brno so you'll have chance to talk to Redhat developers directly
Aug 05 18:51:26 <Kevin_Kofler>	I hope I won't get lost in the city with my nonexistent Czech language skills. :-(
Aug 05 18:51:37 <ltinkl>	conference program, accomodation, travel info and other stuff on the wiki page above :)
Aug 05 18:52:00 <ltinkl>	Kevin_Kofler: I can pick ppl up at the station/airport if needed
Aug 05 18:52:58 <rdieter>	ltinkl, Kevin_Kofler, than: ever done a BarCamp before?
Aug 05 18:53:10 <ltinkl>	rdieter: nope
Aug 05 18:53:18 *	ltinkl already wondered wth is that :)
Aug 05 18:53:27 <ltinkl>	will we camp the bar? sound good :DD
Aug 05 18:53:57 <rdieter>	in short, you pitch some talk/session topic to the croud, and all sessions get quick-n-dirty votes 
to which ones are most popular, and those are the ones assigned rooms
Aug 05 18:54:49 <rdieter>	controlled chaos, but it works, marvelously.
Aug 05 18:55:24 <replica>	rdieter: just put "beer" somewhere in the title of your talk
Aug 05 18:55:43 <rdieter>	so, ltinkl, than(?), and Kevin_Kofler, think of some good kde session/topics to pitch, and see how 
it goes. :)
Aug 05 18:56:10 *	rdieter adds "beer" to akademy title slide. check.
Aug 05 18:56:19 <ltinkl>	I'm thinking of "make KDE the default Fedora KDE" topic
Aug 05 18:56:25 <ltinkl>	s/KDE/DE
Aug 05 18:56:39 <replica>	provacative ;)
Aug 05 18:56:49 <rdieter>	ltinkl: that's the spirit!
Aug 05 18:57:14 <rdieter>	ok, well, looks like we're out of time for today, let's head back to #fedora-kde.  thanks all.
Aug 05 18:57:23 <Kevin_Kofler>	ltinkl: You'll need to duck when the tomatoes fly. ;-)
Aug 05 18:57:36 <ltinkl>	or those beer glasses
Aug 05 18:57:42 *	rdieter has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular 
meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule
Aug 05 18:57:47 <replica>	stale kolaches
Aug 05 18:57:49 <rdieter>	end meeting
Aug 05 18:58:07 <rdieter>	oh, can someone grab and post the log of the meeting?
Aug 05 18:58:31 <lvillani>	I can do it

